Do you like #bicycles or #cycling? Do you also use an #xmpp compatible chat service? Join our new group chat at [bicycles@conference.samwhited.com](xmpp:bicycles@conference.samwhited.com?join). Hopefully this can become a fun community space to share pictures, post routes, and generally chat about bicycles. [Join us!](xmpp:bicycles@conference.samwhited.com?join)

This may not be as amazing if you're not from Atlanta, but someone at the local bike co-op (https://sopobikes.org/) recently came in to paint a bike using MARTA (the local public transit authority; https://itsmarta.com/) colors! I've never seen such a good reaction and I've definitely never seen a bike I wanted this badly! It's just a prototype before doing it to a good frame, so I can't wait to see the final result! It's a bit hard to see in the picture, but even the cable guides are orange, yellow, and blue which I thought was a nice touch. 

cross-posted from: https://community.xmpp.net/post/1234 > When a bicycle comes with terrible wrenches that would normally just be thrown away because they cut into your hands, what do you do? Save some scrap bar wrap that would otherwise go in the trash and make nice handles for them of course! Now the tool is actually useful and you have a use for your excess tape (not to mention it looks good)!


Bought along with a mixte in the same color as a matching his/hers set for $150. Stripped and rebuilt them with new alloy wheels, dynamo hubs and headlights in the front and 2 speed automatix hubs in the back.

It seems obvious. If i spend 600€ on a new bike and 600€ on a conversion kit, i will get a very high spec e-bike. But i would have to spend double that, about 3000€ to get an okay quality off-the-shelf e-bike. The off-the-shelf e-bike won't be the exact size/style i like. They are nearly all city-bike style. Not many sizes are available, usually just small, medium, large (whatever that men's). It will be much heavier. It will be more difficult to customise, for example with baby seat, lights, horns, mirrors. It will probably be impossible to de-restrict, to be usable at normal cycling speeds. **Most importantly**, it will not use standard parts. For example if the battery or motor dies after a few years, i have to buy a replacement from the same manufacturer, if that is even available. For a converted bike, i can change the components independently and choose any brand for the new parts (i think). What is the argument for buying an off-the-shelf e-bike? Why would anyone do that?

| tool | [Lumintrail TL810E $60](https://lightjunction.com/collections/tools/products/lumintrail-bike-repair-tool-kit-42-pieces) | [CyclingDeal SC-168A $55](https://cyclingdealusa.com/collections/bike-tool-kits/products/bicycle-bike-repair-tools-tool-kit-made-in-taiwan-sc-168a) | [Bike Hand YC-737 $50](https://cyclingdealusa.com/collections/bike-tool-kits/products/bikehand-bike-bicycle-repair-tools-maintenance-tool-kit-set-yc-737) | [Venzo VZ-F33-075 $40](https://cyclingdealusa.com/collections/bike-tool-kits/products/venzo-professional-bike-bicycle-repair-tool-kit-vz-f33-075) | [Luna $39](https://lunacycle.com/luna-cycle-ebike-tool-kit/) | |---|---|---|---|---|---| | bottom bracket & headset lock ring tool | n | y | n | n | n | bottom bracket cup tool (adjustable) | n | y | n | n | n | bottom bracket tool (cartridge) |y (Shimano + ISIS) | y (Shimano) | y | y (Shimano + ISIS) | y | chain rivet extractor & assembler (adjustable, Shimano compatible) | y (HG/UG) | y | y | y (6-10 speed & 410,408 chains) | y | chainring bolt tool | n | n | n | n | y | crank puller | y (cotterless, Shimano+ISIS) | y (cotterless, fits all axles) | y (cotterless) | y (square taper, Shimano splined Octalink & ISIS) | y | freewheel (aka lockring) remover (Shimano compatible) | y | y | y | y | y | freewheel turner (aka chain whip) | y (5-12 speed) | y | y | y (1/8" fixed gear sprocket) | y (3/32') | hex wrench (2/3/4/5/6mm) | y (+2.5) | y (+2.5, 4/5/6mm ball-ended) | y (folding) | y (+2.5) | y (ball-ended) | hex wrench (8mm, for crank arm removal, + 1/2" adaptor for socket tools) | y | y | y | y | n | hex wrench (6mm, auxiliary square head) | y | n | n | n | n | pedal wrench (aka spanner) | y (15mm/16mm, 15mm/17mm) | y | n | y (15mm) | y (+14/15 socket end) | screwdriver (Phillips) | y (+2 bits) | y | y | n | y | screwdriver (flat) | y (+2 bits) | n | y | n | y | screwdriver (precision, for derailleur's adjustment) | n | y | n | n | n | sockets (8/9/10mm) | y | n | n | n | n | spoke adjuster (forged /-groove) | y (10G-15G) | y | y (10G-15G) | y (0.127"/0.130"/0.136", 3.2/3.3/3.5MM) | y (3.2/3.3/3.5mm) | tensioning torques | n | n | n | n | y (Shimano) | tire levers | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | tire pressure gauge | y | n | n | n | n | tire repair kit | y | y | y | y | y | torx wrenches (3 sizes) | n | n | n | n | y | wrench (6" adjustable wrench) | n | y | n | n | n | wrench (headset 30mm/32mm, 36mm/40mm | y | y (4-in-1) | n | n | n | wrench (aka spanner, open, 8x10mm) | y | y | y | y | n | wrenches (2 hub-cone 13x14x15x16mm) | y | y | y | n | y

Which batteries give the most juice for the money? # Power Tool Batteries | make/model | tech | V | amphours | watt hours | warranty | net cost | price/Ah | price/Wh | |---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---| | DSANKE (Black&Decker) | Li-Ion | 18v | 5 Ah ||| $29 | $5.8 | $0.32 | | generic (Ryobi) | Li-Ion | 18v | 6 Ah ||| $33 | $5.5 | **$0.31** | | Powerextra (Porter Cable) | Li-Ion | 20v | 5 Ah ea. || 1yr | $63/2 | $6.3 |$0.35| | TenHutt (Ryobi) | Li-Ion | 18v | 9 Ah ||| $64 | $7.11 |$0.40| | Swidan (Greenworks) | Li-Ion | 40v | 5 Ah ||| $66 | $13.2 |$0.37| | Waitley (DeWalt) || 20v | 9 Ah ||| $70 | $7.78 |$0.43| | Lotive (Greenworks) | Li-Ion | 40v | 6 Ah || 30 days | $69 | $11.5 | $0.32 | | Epowon (Greenworks) | Li-Ion | 40v | 5 Ah || 1yr | $73 | $14.6 | $0.41 | | Waitley (DeWalt) || 20v | 6 Ah ea. ||| $76/2 | $6.33 |$0.35| | Ryobi | Li-Ion | 18v || 28 Wh ea.| 90day | $78/2 | ? |$1.39 | | Waspt | Li-Ion | 40v | 6 Ah ||| $82 | $13.67 |$0.38| | Elefly | Li-Ion | 40v | 6 Ah || 1yr | $88 | $14.67 |$0.41| | Porter Cable | Ni-Mh | 20v | 4 Ah ea.||| $110/4 | $6.88 |$0.38| | Powerworks | Li-Ion | 60v | 5 Ah | 270 Wh || $140 | $28 |$0.52| | Greenworks | Li-Ion | 40v | 5 Ah || 2yr | [$180](https://www.greenworkstools.com/shop-by-tool/battery-chargers/5ah-battery) | $36 |$1 | | Greenworks | Li-Ion | 60v | 5 Ah || 2yr | [$200](https://www.greenworkstools.com/shop-by-tool/battery-chargers/60v-battery-374) | $40 |$0.77| | eGo BA4200 | Li-Ion | 56V | 7.5Ah || 3yr | $233 | $31.07 |$0.60| # Batteries specialized for E-bikes | make/model/shape | tech | V | amphours | watt hours | warranty | net cost | price/Ah | price/Wh | |---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---| | greencycle bottle || 24v 250w | 10 Ah || 23 days | [$95](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32915442402.html) | $9.5 | $0.40 | | HaiTu Bottle | Li-Ion | 36v | 7 Ah ||| [$130](https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/1094-18535-36v5ah7ah-haitu-bottle-battery-pack-with-usb-output.html#/510-inner_controller-with/544-cells_capacity-samsung_35ah_7ah) | $18.57 | $0.52 | | fastakeep | Li-Ion | 24v | 8 Ah || 30 days | $150 | $18.75 | $0.78 | | dolphin | Li-ion | 36v | 11 Ah || 1 yr | [$153](http://recycles-ebike.com/home/167-eu-us-free-tax-hot-selling-dolphin-style-36v-11ah-lithium-ion-ebike-battery-fit-for-250w-300w-500w-bafang-bbs02-motor-kit.html) | $13.91 | $0.39 | | green E-motion bottle || 36v | 8 Ah || 23 days | [$154](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32948898053.html) | $19.13 | $0.53 | | Hailong Downtube | Li-Ion | 48v | 12.5 Ah || 1yr | [$195](http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2017-8r-jdnp) (EU only; paypal only!) | $15.6 | **$0.33** | | Sanyo | Li-Ion | 52v | 8 Ah || 1yr | [$209](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32838238566.html) | $26.13 | $0.50 | | generic | Li-Ion | 48v | 10 Ah || 1yr | [$214](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32902235272.html) | $21.36 | $0.46 | | Downtube | Li-Ion | 52v | 10.4 Ah | | 30 days | [$226](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32932206570.html) | $21.73 | $0.42 | | ebike motor battery store || 36v | 10 Ah ||| [$227](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32381218353.html) | $20.6 | $0.57 | | green E-motion bottle || 52v | 10 Ah || 23 days | [$227](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32948898053.html) | $22.7 | $0.44 | | Hailong dolphin shark | Li-Ion | 48v | 10 Ah || 1yr | [$227](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32710471977.html) | $22.7 | $0.47 | | fastakeep | Li-Ion | 52v | 10 Ah || 30 days | [$236](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000218328813.html) | $23.6 | $0.45 | | Dsaikl | Li-Ion | 52v 750w | 10 Ah ||| [$239](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32968492364.html) | $23.9 | $0.46 | | Wallen Power Hailong | Li-Ion | 48v | 10 Ah || 1yr | [$243](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33061971211.html) | $24.3 | $0.51 | | 01-Case | Li-ion | 48v | 10 Ah ||| [$243](https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/950-17996-48v10ah116ah14ah-li-ion-alloy-01-case-ebike-battery-pack.html#/137-color-black/512-cells_capacity-25ah_high_c_rate_10ah) | $24.3 | $0.51 | | Risklight | Li-Ion | 52v | 10 Ah | | >1yr "Guarantee"? | [$244](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33036029201.html) | $24.4 | $0.47 | | green E-motion bottle || 52v | 12 Ah || 23 days | [$246](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32948898053.html) | $20.5 | $0.40 | | Luna Wolf Pup (Samsung 21700 40T cells) | Li-Ion | 52v | 4 Ah | 200 Wh || [$249](https://lunacycle.com/wolf-pup/) | $0.75 | $1.25 | | jsa kaka | Li-Ion | 52v | 10.2 Ah || 1yr | [$250](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000326139891.html) | $24.51 | $0.47 | | jsa kaka | Li-Ion | 52v 500w? | 10 Ah || 1yr | [$255](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32974116824.html) (s/h) | $25.5 | $0.49 | | ebird locking battery || 48v | 10 Ah ||| $255 | $25.5 | $0.53 | | Hailong | Li-Ion | 52v | 13 Ah || 23 days | [$260](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000237655796.html) | $20 | $0.38 | | 03-Case | Li-ion | 48v | 10 Ah ||| [$262](https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/955-18104-48v10ah116ah14ah-li-ion-alloy-03-case-ebike-battery-pack.html#/137-color-black/512-cells_capacity-25ah_high_c_rate_10ah/533-rack-without) | $26.2 | $0.55 | | unit pack power Hailong2 | Li-Ion | 48v | 13 Ah | 624 Wh | 1yr | [$263](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32868055493.html) | $20.23 | $0.42 | | eco-bike bottle || 36v | 7 Ah | 252 Wh 15a || [$275](https://www.eco-ebike.com/collections/36v/products/36v-7-0ah-water-bottle-battery) | $39.29 | $1.09 | | Chamrider || 52v | 13 Ah || 1yr | [$279](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32963530936.html) | $21.46 | $0.41 | | dolphin | Li-Ion | 52v | 10.4 Ah || 1yr | [$281](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000465321609.html) | $27.02 | $0.52 | | Hailong 3 | Li-Ion | 52v | 13 Ah || 1yr | [$281](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33040375580.html) | $21.62 | $0.42 | | Best Bikes || 52v | 13 Ah | 676 Wh | 1yr | [$284](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000157836774.html) | $21.85 | $0.42 | | bottle | Li-ion | 48v 750w | 13 Ah || 1yr | [$326](http://recycles-ebike.com/home/168-us-eu-free-tax-water-bottle-48v-750w-ebike-battery-48v-13ah-kettle-style-samsung-li-ion-battery-with-546v-2a-charger.html) | $25.08 | $0.52 | | down tube | non-lead | 52v | 13 Ah || 1yr | [$336](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32998383029.html) | $25.85 | $0.50 | | Whale | Li-Ion | 52v | 11.6 Ah || 1yr | [$349](http://recycles-ebike.com/home/202-2016-new-style-ebike-whale-battery-pack-use-14s4p-ncr18650pf-cells-52v-116ah-lithium-ion-battery-with-usb-588v-2a-charger.html) | $30.09 | $0.58 | | Samsung | | 52v | 14 Ah || 1yr | [$354](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32914092155.html) | $25.29 | $0.49 | | ebird bottle || 48v | 10 Ah ||| [$358](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32783152119.html) | $35.8 | $0.75 | | Jumbo Hailong Shark || 52v | 13 Ah | 676 Wh 30a || [$400](https://www.eco-ebike.com/collections/52v/products/52v-13ah-jumbo-hailong-shark-battery) | $30.77 | $0.59 | | Jumbo Shark || 48v | 14.3 Ah ||| [$544](https://california-ebike.com/shop/48-v-12-5ah-downtube-battery-pack-high-capacity-generic-cellscharger/) | $38.04 | $0.79 | Assumptions in the "price/Wh" calculations: * 20v batteries are really 18v * 40v batteries are really 36v * 52-60v batteries are really 52v because marketers lie. Amphours may be lies too, likely rounded to whole numbers, but we can't do anything about that.

In the search for a mid-drive motor kit I've found that most distributors neglect to state the size of the crank arm. The few that do have chosen a size that's optimum for people 5'9" or taller. The average US woman is 5'4", and the average Asian man is 5'7". These groups are being discriminated against in the market of DiY mid-drive motor kits. It's a one-size fits ~20% of the population scenario, roughly, and only one size is offered. Some kits are standard enough that it's possible to buy a separate aftermarket crankset, but the specs are undocumented and this also entails spending $100+ more and then wasting the stock cranks after spending upwards of $500 on the kit. The industry needs to get its shit together. | model | bottom bracket req. | crank size | [optimum rider height](https://www.ilovebicycling.com/crank-arm-length/) | notes | |---|---|---|---|---| | AFT | n/a (straps to frame) | n/a | n/a | shitty tor-hostile site | | Bafang BBS02 | 68-73mm | ? | ? || | Bafang BBSHD | 68-73mm, 73-100mm, 120mm | [175mm](https://lunacycle.com/bafang-bbshd-1000w-middrive-kit/) | 5'11" || | Bikee Bike | ? | ? | ? | uses Sony batteries (unethical!); app is iOS & Google Playstore only; shitty [tor-hostile site](https://www.bikeebike.com/) | | [Binova Flow](https://www.binova-flow.com/) | ? | ? | ? | no useful info on website and their [store](https://www.binova-flow.com/shop/) blocks Tor. ~[$2k](https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/new-option-retrofit-your-bike-e-pedelec-and-more-velo-berlin.html) | | [CYC x1-pro 3000w](https://www.cycmotor.com/x1-pro) | 68,73,83,100,120mm | 170mm | 5'9" | same as GNG x1-pro? chain or gear drive; app is iOS & Google Playstore only | | [Cyclone 3000w](http://cyclone-tw.com/2chkit.html) | 68-83mm, 95-120mm | 170mm | 5'9" | [$430](http://cyclone-tw.com/2chkit.html) | | [Ecospeed](https://turbobobbicycleblog.wordpress.com/2015/10/16/ecospeed-mid-drive-conversion-by-nomad-power-you-want-need/) | side-drive? | ? | ? | for recumbants; ecospeed.com dead | | Ego | side-drive? | ? | ? | CloudFlare site | | [L-faster](https://www.l-faster.com/items/750w-e-bike-mid-drive-motor-kit-integrated/) | 68mm (+100mm for 750w motor) | ? | ? | 250w,350w,500w,750w,1300w; chain drive & integrated versions; integrated speed sensor; $345 for 750w | | GNG 2016 Premium belt | 68-73mm | 170mm | 5'9" | CloudFlare site | | GNG 2019 3000w Cyclone Premium | 68-73mm, 83-120mm | ? | ? | CloudFlare site | | GNG 2019 450w Cyclone Premium | 68-73mm, 83-120mm | ? | ? | CloudFlare site | | [L-R two stage](https://lightning-rods10.mybigcommerce.com/two-stage-small-block-mid-drive/) | 68-100mm | ? | ? | $745; broken contact page | | Luna Deluxe Mini Cyclone | 68-83mm | ? | ? || | [Pendix](https://pendix.com) | 68-73mm | ? | ? | 250w; >$1k | | [Tongsheng TSDZ2](https://www.elecycles.com/tongsheng-tsdz2-mid-drive-motor-e-bike-conversion-kit.html) | 68-83mm, [68mm,100mm,120mm](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32749908969.html) | [170](https://ebikechoices.com/tongsheng-tsdz2-review/#comment-518) | 5'9" | crank arms have an absurd Q-factor and should be replaced anyway. They are compatible with Bafang & Shimano Steps FC-E6000 | | Xing | ? | ? | ? | shitty tor-hostile site | | [Xofo](http://precialps.com/uk/21-mid-drive-xofo-mms) | [68mm](http://xofoeurope.com/en/central-motor/) | ? | ? | Bafang knock-off? [broken mfr site](xofomotor.com) | The product information available is lousy all around. If anyone finds data for any of the above question marks, please post and I'll update the table. These are the ideal crank specs (neglecting special circumstances like crouched over racing positions): | rider height | optimal crank length (mm) | |---|---| | 6'0" (1828mm) | 177.5 | | 5'11" (1803mm) | 175 | | 5'10" (1778mm) | 172.5 | | 5'9" (1753mm) | 170 | | 5'7" (1702mm) | 165 | | 5'5" (1651mm) | 160 | ([source](https://bikedynamics.co.uk/FitGuidecranks.htm))