At this point - genuinely curious what was written here that inspired so strong a reaction. I suspect, however, from a partial quote available in other comments, is that deleted comment reflected a view commonly held by a sizable part, perhaps even majority of people in the discussed country. Perhaps it was phrased in an unconsiderate form? If so, perhaps local ban was called for - if the goal is to create a specificly “safe place”. If the goal is a honest discussion of a regional phenomenon, perhaps it would be worthwhile to investigate historical, cultural and demographic issues that may have lead to such viewpoint being so widespread.
Okay, time to hit a big one once and for fucking all and get off Lemmygrad for good. Everyone outside of our borders be like “ebil christianity, it made em russkies homophobes!!!”, “ebil puttler oppressing such homo russian population!!!” but have no idea that even proper commies unanimously stand against all this rainbowy shit. No, I’m not talking about CPRF, I’m talking about everyone but them. Reasons? Ohhhh boooy, get some air. 1. All this LGBT shit being different cases of mental and physical problems. Caused by different reasons, of course, but the nature of those cases still stands. AND YOU CAN BAN ME NOW, BECAUSE I DO AGREE WITH IT. 2. Why in the fucking universe would COMMIES of all things be bothered with this shit? Idk about Europe, America or other decadent rupturing hellhole, but in our parts all this LGBT stuff is so microscopic that you just do not need to bother. We here stand for the oppressed majority, not some groups of weird minorities. If you accentuate all this crap inside your steel-clad universal movement you’re literally causing internal split, because this way you will have a very vocal group which has different interests in mind. You do not need that. It can be weaponised and in the West they already weaponised it, you have your “beloved commie LGBT agenda” working for CIA and whatnot, being integrated into modern lib ideology. AND YES, I DO STAND FIRMLY WITH OUR RUSSIAN COMMUNISTS ON THAT TOO, WE DO NOT NEED TO BOTHER WITH LGBT IN COMMUNIST MOVEMENTS. This entire problem will solve itself once communism is in, one way or another, so we do not need to bother dealing with this libshit. Also, another point. It is a general tradition here to NOT put out your sexual life on display. If you really, reeeeeeally wanna for some reason to still sell all this crap here despite what I said - try to do it unlike in Europe, 'kay? Without parades and running around almost naked with rainbow flags. The general stance is that you can do whatever the hell you want with your love life, but do not. FUCKING. BOTHER. OTHERS. Especially if it’s something weird. Well, I’m done. Enough venting. Fuck this. I’ll be gone. Time will tell who is right in the end.
Lemmygrad is still quite small, although it has grown a lot this year, and it’s inevitable that people will see each other somewhere else on here and recognize each other as well. (edited for clarity)
It’s not so much a problem on reddit for example because you can just create your own community and moderate it how you want. But most people on lemmygrad I’d wager are on the “local” setting which shows posts from the whole instance and not just what you’re subscribed to.
To protect our LGBT comrades who might feel unsafe sharing such a tight community with this user the only solution was a global ban. We could also have let a debate happen but once again our comrades would have to defend their existence to someone who does not care for it, and that’s not something that should happen so frequently.
I gave them a year off to hopefully reflect on this and we’ll see if they still care about lemmygrad after a year and if they still hold the same opinion then.
Just to put it out there. Just to speak on it from a western position in response to this person’s post.
There was antihomosexual violence BEFORE there were these ostentatious parades. There is antihomosexual violence DURING this period of these parades.
It hasnt changed the reality of LGBTQ people as far as those common latent desires of anti queer violence. It would be very easy to simply write off homophobia as a reactionary/fascist phenomina that can be laser focused and dealt with.
But there is regrettably very based communists who will look the other ways or ignore the violence. They maybe wont participate in the fascist slaughter.
…But Im supposed to stick my neck out for communism today so that tomorrow my comrades can f*g drag me? What an AMAZING bargain. What a beautiful future a queer like me gets to look forward to.
You can kill us all. You can let the rabble have their blood letting. It wont bring down your landlord.
It’s very easy. Dont kill us. Dont paint us with a monstrous brush. Id trade all the pride parades in the world for queerness to just be taken as a typical, normal human thing.
It’s okay though. My firearms are equal opportunity. Your communism wont stop me from feeling like I need to dedend myself and my loved ones.
Let Russia handle its own affairs though. Homocolonialism and Homonationalism is some seriously fucked shit. I aint here for that.
To support this comment I think it’s fair to say I’ve dropped a few tankie walls of text in my time here and I’d do again dammit if it meant genuine progress and education on issues that affect me.
If people came in good faith and asked “I don’t get this please help me understand” provided I wasn’t exhausted I’d engage because that benefits both parties and I absolutely take contextual factors into account in these discussions.
The above however was not that, it was fueled by anger and reactionaryism and not the sort of person who wants to listen and understand but someone who’s decided that’s how it be and I’m not defending my existence to someone who’s already decided its irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
Not certain if there would be a point in an any further discussion of the topic, but I can not help but think of the quote: “We must never stop explaining.” Because opposing forces can, do, and will further weaponize any disagreements and splits.
While I agree with Ratette and Kanzler that queer people shouldn’t be expected to argue for their very existence and basic respect, and that this is reason enough to ban someone, I would like to offer you a bit more of a Marxist take on the situation.
This thread was asking about a specific social relation: the oppression of queer people in Russia.
The comments then, were a place for people to discuss the historical and material conditions that led to this social relation.
This particular user’s tantrum showed anger at the very existence of the discussion. If someone is unwilling to engage with (or more, is angry at the very existence of) a discussion about the material and historical conditions that give rise to social relations, I struggle to see what a Marxist-Leninist forum has to offer them, and more, what they have to offer a Marxist-Leninist forum.
Lemmygrad is a confederation of communities bound together by the social contract stipulated in the main site’s rules. In the course of one comment, despite knowing full well it would get them banned, this user engaged in sectarianism, bigotry, disrespect, and promoted and fueled the very division they were railing against.
Such behaviour is a direct contradiction with the social dynamics of the agreed-upon forum rules, and as such, the most prudent course to resolve the contradiction was to ban the user, and thus reinforce the social contract that we all must agree upon when creating accounts here.
If the user were to resolve some of their own internal contradictions (such as promoting division by arguing against division, claiming themself as an ML while refusing discussions about historical and material conditions leading to social relations, promoting capitalist ideals of cisheteronormative family structures in a misguided attempt at subsuming such capitalist structures within communism which could lead only to continued class disparity and thus never true communism) they would be more than welcome to return.
In fact, nothing stops them from making a new account right now, and engaging once more, provided they have, at the least, resolved enough of their internal contradictions to have learned to keep such thoughts to themself or else face a repeat ban.
Opposing forces can, do and will weaponise anything, just as you say. I do not see why it is worth to expend energy on such morons. Remember, Pareto’s principle. Use your energy among 5 people who are willing to listen and be humble, instead of 1 who refuses to.
"Have you tried explaining it to us through polite and considered discourse?
We won’t listen to you but as an oppressed minority its technically your responsibility to educate us oppressors as we are far too busy oppressing to do it ourselves."
/s
Imagine running someone over and then telling them to ring the ambulance because only they can explain the situation properly 🤣
This is one of those situations where I shouldn’t have to put myself into a traumatising engagement to explain to someone who doesn’t want to listen in the first place.
I’m not achieving anything and in this situation it’s clear that even if I did the person won’t listen or trust me on it.
I’ve dropped enough walls of text in the past and on this thread to articulate why their position is untenable as have others.
This wasn’t a “someone explain it” scenario.
It was “this is my position and I’m not changing it”.
Explaining isn’t going to help right now and only make me feel worse and any other affected party who has to sit and engage or read the back and forth.
Allies can pick up the slack in these situations but I’d not expect anyone to just piss their time away on someone who isn’t ready or willing to listen and learn.
There’s enough comments and explanations in this thread and one user even offered sources and reading material.
To maintain this “uwu we must never stop explaining” veneer just feels the same energy as libs telling people to keep voting and trust the system will work. It won’t and when the material evidence suggests that explaining won’t do any good then I don’t think I or anyone else is at fault for writing someone off as a lost cause because they chose to take that position when they dropped their stupid rant.
I feel you mean well in your comments but my existence because of homophobia and transphobia is fundamentally affected and negative as a result of the aforementioned views and takes.
I have to be aware of people in public and put safety behaviours and actions in place to protect myself from people who share those views whether that be from physical assault or verbal.
There’s genuinely places I can’t go at certain times because I could be hurt as a result of bigotry.
Having to deal with that daily and thats not even including all the systemic bigotry and discrimination and then to have people erase my oppression or act like it’s not a big deal when it’s purportrated and enabled by those same people is enough to make you sick with anger.
Imagine if white people went to globally southern countries “well you haven’t considered our contextual factors in why we support colonialism and I can’t help but feel you as the colonised need to explain more to help us understand despite us making fully clear we won’t listen” lmao.
We’d all be flipping out over white chauvinism, coloniser mindsets and racism so why am I as a queer person expected to do the same to a homophobe?
The point is we don’t waste our time with coloniser libs if they aren’t engaging in good faith but there’s an expectation on queer people to confront their oppressors constantly and explain to them why they are wrong and that feels hypocritical that we are expected by the majority to kindly tolerate their bigotry and address it daily when the majority can’t even be bothered to meet us half way.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !genzedong@lemmygrad.ml
This is a Dengist community in favor of Bashar al-Assad with no information that can lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton, our fellow liberal and queen. This community is not ironic. We are Marxists-Leninists.
If you haven’t already found it, this GitHub page is an excellent collection of sources about socialism, imperialism, and other relevant topics, made by @dessalines and others.
At this point - genuinely curious what was written here that inspired so strong a reaction. I suspect, however, from a partial quote available in other comments, is that deleted comment reflected a view commonly held by a sizable part, perhaps even majority of people in the discussed country. Perhaps it was phrased in an unconsiderate form? If so, perhaps local ban was called for - if the goal is to create a specificly “safe place”. If the goal is a honest discussion of a regional phenomenon, perhaps it would be worthwhile to investigate historical, cultural and demographic issues that may have lead to such viewpoint being so widespread.
spoiler
God you ask why we care so much and yet you write off a 2 paragraph manifesto
deleted by creator
I know, was replying to that, should have clarified better. Sorry!!
deleted by creator
Click the modlog button at the bottom of the page or the sidebar, and you can see what was removed.
Lemmygrad is still quite small, although it has grown a lot this year, and it’s inevitable that people will see each other somewhere else on here and recognize each other as well. (edited for clarity)
It’s not so much a problem on reddit for example because you can just create your own community and moderate it how you want. But most people on lemmygrad I’d wager are on the “local” setting which shows posts from the whole instance and not just what you’re subscribed to.
To protect our LGBT comrades who might feel unsafe sharing such a tight community with this user the only solution was a global ban. We could also have let a debate happen but once again our comrades would have to defend their existence to someone who does not care for it, and that’s not something that should happen so frequently.
I gave them a year off to hopefully reflect on this and we’ll see if they still care about lemmygrad after a year and if they still hold the same opinion then.
Just to put it out there. Just to speak on it from a western position in response to this person’s post.
There was antihomosexual violence BEFORE there were these ostentatious parades. There is antihomosexual violence DURING this period of these parades.
It hasnt changed the reality of LGBTQ people as far as those common latent desires of anti queer violence. It would be very easy to simply write off homophobia as a reactionary/fascist phenomina that can be laser focused and dealt with.
But there is regrettably very based communists who will look the other ways or ignore the violence. They maybe wont participate in the fascist slaughter.
…But Im supposed to stick my neck out for communism today so that tomorrow my comrades can f*g drag me? What an AMAZING bargain. What a beautiful future a queer like me gets to look forward to.
You can kill us all. You can let the rabble have their blood letting. It wont bring down your landlord.
It’s very easy. Dont kill us. Dont paint us with a monstrous brush. Id trade all the pride parades in the world for queerness to just be taken as a typical, normal human thing.
It’s okay though. My firearms are equal opportunity. Your communism wont stop me from feeling like I need to dedend myself and my loved ones.
Let Russia handle its own affairs though. Homocolonialism and Homonationalism is some seriously fucked shit. I aint here for that.
To support this comment I think it’s fair to say I’ve dropped a few tankie walls of text in my time here and I’d do again dammit if it meant genuine progress and education on issues that affect me.
If people came in good faith and asked “I don’t get this please help me understand” provided I wasn’t exhausted I’d engage because that benefits both parties and I absolutely take contextual factors into account in these discussions.
The above however was not that, it was fueled by anger and reactionaryism and not the sort of person who wants to listen and understand but someone who’s decided that’s how it be and I’m not defending my existence to someone who’s already decided its irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
Not certain if there would be a point in an any further discussion of the topic, but I can not help but think of the quote: “We must never stop explaining.” Because opposing forces can, do, and will further weaponize any disagreements and splits.
While I agree with Ratette and Kanzler that queer people shouldn’t be expected to argue for their very existence and basic respect, and that this is reason enough to ban someone, I would like to offer you a bit more of a Marxist take on the situation.
This thread was asking about a specific social relation: the oppression of queer people in Russia.
The comments then, were a place for people to discuss the historical and material conditions that led to this social relation.
This particular user’s tantrum showed anger at the very existence of the discussion. If someone is unwilling to engage with (or more, is angry at the very existence of) a discussion about the material and historical conditions that give rise to social relations, I struggle to see what a Marxist-Leninist forum has to offer them, and more, what they have to offer a Marxist-Leninist forum.
Lemmygrad is a confederation of communities bound together by the social contract stipulated in the main site’s rules. In the course of one comment, despite knowing full well it would get them banned, this user engaged in sectarianism, bigotry, disrespect, and promoted and fueled the very division they were railing against.
Such behaviour is a direct contradiction with the social dynamics of the agreed-upon forum rules, and as such, the most prudent course to resolve the contradiction was to ban the user, and thus reinforce the social contract that we all must agree upon when creating accounts here.
If the user were to resolve some of their own internal contradictions (such as promoting division by arguing against division, claiming themself as an ML while refusing discussions about historical and material conditions leading to social relations, promoting capitalist ideals of cisheteronormative family structures in a misguided attempt at subsuming such capitalist structures within communism which could lead only to continued class disparity and thus never true communism) they would be more than welcome to return.
In fact, nothing stops them from making a new account right now, and engaging once more, provided they have, at the least, resolved enough of their internal contradictions to have learned to keep such thoughts to themself or else face a repeat ban.
Opposing forces can, do and will weaponise anything, just as you say. I do not see why it is worth to expend energy on such morons. Remember, Pareto’s principle. Use your energy among 5 people who are willing to listen and be humble, instead of 1 who refuses to.
If someone comes in and tells me “you’re mentally ill, you don’t deserve to exist,” I don’t see why I need to justify my existence to them
Kind stone: “I’ve showed you my bigotry, now justify your existence.”
"Have you tried explaining it to us through polite and considered discourse?
We won’t listen to you but as an oppressed minority its technically your responsibility to educate us oppressors as we are far too busy oppressing to do it ourselves."
/s
Imagine running someone over and then telling them to ring the ambulance because only they can explain the situation properly 🤣
Right, but I don’t stop explaining.
I just don’t do it to walls.
This is one of those situations where I shouldn’t have to put myself into a traumatising engagement to explain to someone who doesn’t want to listen in the first place.
I’m not achieving anything and in this situation it’s clear that even if I did the person won’t listen or trust me on it.
I’ve dropped enough walls of text in the past and on this thread to articulate why their position is untenable as have others.
This wasn’t a “someone explain it” scenario.
It was “this is my position and I’m not changing it”.
Explaining isn’t going to help right now and only make me feel worse and any other affected party who has to sit and engage or read the back and forth.
Allies can pick up the slack in these situations but I’d not expect anyone to just piss their time away on someone who isn’t ready or willing to listen and learn.
There’s enough comments and explanations in this thread and one user even offered sources and reading material.
To maintain this “uwu we must never stop explaining” veneer just feels the same energy as libs telling people to keep voting and trust the system will work. It won’t and when the material evidence suggests that explaining won’t do any good then I don’t think I or anyone else is at fault for writing someone off as a lost cause because they chose to take that position when they dropped their stupid rant.
I feel you mean well in your comments but my existence because of homophobia and transphobia is fundamentally affected and negative as a result of the aforementioned views and takes.
I have to be aware of people in public and put safety behaviours and actions in place to protect myself from people who share those views whether that be from physical assault or verbal.
There’s genuinely places I can’t go at certain times because I could be hurt as a result of bigotry.
Having to deal with that daily and thats not even including all the systemic bigotry and discrimination and then to have people erase my oppression or act like it’s not a big deal when it’s purportrated and enabled by those same people is enough to make you sick with anger.
Imagine if white people went to globally southern countries “well you haven’t considered our contextual factors in why we support colonialism and I can’t help but feel you as the colonised need to explain more to help us understand despite us making fully clear we won’t listen” lmao.
We’d all be flipping out over white chauvinism, coloniser mindsets and racism so why am I as a queer person expected to do the same to a homophobe?
The point is we don’t waste our time with coloniser libs if they aren’t engaging in good faith but there’s an expectation on queer people to confront their oppressors constantly and explain to them why they are wrong and that feels hypocritical that we are expected by the majority to kindly tolerate their bigotry and address it daily when the majority can’t even be bothered to meet us half way.
Check the modlog to see for yourself
Thank you, did check the modlog.