So what it says is:

  • we will spy on you and sell data collected to unknown third parties for our profit, or you can’t use the TV
  • you don’t own this product and we can take parts of it’s functionality away from you at any time for any reason
  • we will make more money off you by selling ads directly to your screen based on data that we have collected on you to maximize our profit and effect of advertisement on you and your family for our partners gain

I’m tired of telling people that they 🤬 read the TOS and PP of a product / service, before using it. If they would do so by avoiding accepting these abuses, these practices would have been finished long ago.

To quote Jerry Seinfeld…

“Have you read that thing? It’s like the Declaration of Independence.”"

Point is,

a) most people don’t have the time to read the TOS;

b) most people don’t understand half of what a TOS even talks about; and

c) people have fewer and fewer alternatives to these companies because this sort of thing is becoming so common.

I understand that reading these things, often full of judicial jargon, is something undesirable, but not doing so is the same as signing a loan in a bank, without reading the conditions, it can give many unpleasant surprises and consequences. The companies calculate with this and it does not cause them any problem to fill this with abusive and even illegal clauses. But it is not a problem to use for this some of the good services that show the conditions in a summarized and understandable way, such as TOSDR. On the other hand, it always amuses me when many say that this is why they use FOSS, because it allows them to read the script. In this, the first thing naturally comes to mind ‘how are they going to read a script of hundreds of thousands of lines, when not even reading the TOS and the PP, given that currently many FOSS also practice surveillance advertising, selling user data for create your income?’ This is also specified in their terms of use. Nobody reads this ‘Since FOSS is synonymous with privacy and security’, FALSE, it is not. They also carry APIs from FB, Google, MS, Amazon and others to profile and track the user. These APIs themselves are also FOSS, on GitHub, which is proprietary and owned by Microsoft. The only security that the normal user has is to look at the conditions before signing a contract, both online and in real life.

I understand that reading these things, often full of judicial jargon, is something undesirable, but not doing so is the same as signing a loan in a bank, without reading the conditions, it can give many unpleasant surprises and consequences.

I agree. And similar to bank loans, TOS are often predatory and reliant on working class people not understanding what they’re getting into.

I think you’re blaming the victims of a very predatory practice. In fact, I’d venture to say that even you don’t 100% know what you’re getting into when you’ve read various TOSs. Given the fact that they’re often written by corporate lawyers with the intention of obscuring any nefarious intentions, I think you should try to understand the Sisyphean task you’re assigning working class people with very limited time and resources.

I am not a lawyer, and I certainly have trouble understanding some things in these documents. But at least it can give a clue, how the site treats your data, the main problem is that they use tracking practices to sell the data to third parties, this in most cases is quite clear. The alternative to this would be to refer to the summaries of TOSDR and others to find out. Also Blacklight and Unfurl can expose it (Exodus Privacy for Android apps). That is, there are possibilities to check this, without having to study law first, but of course you have to want to do it. In real life, you don’t sign a 40-year mortgage either, without first reading the conditions and, if you don’t understand them, consult someone who does.

You’re missing my point. Most working class people don’t have the time/resources to look into all of these alternatives. This is like telling someone who shops at Wal-Mart that if they looked harder, they could find a more ethical place to shop without realizing that the reason why they shop at Wal-Mart is because they can barely afford the time or gas to get there and back.

I think it’s not lack of time, but lack of interest or knowledge. If you need a new PC, you also don’t go to the corner store and buy the first one you see on the shelf without hesitation. At a minimum, you inform yourself before which one best corresponds to your needs and expectations, as well as the price and conditions. Well, with services and software it’s the same, but it’s not done, due to lack of time? I doubt it.

You’re presumably a leftist and you don’t see how this is blaming victims?

I don’t see it that way, we are all ignorant in one or another subject, it is not to be blamed, but a task for those who are aware of this problem to spread it, to warn of these practices that in real life would have already caused a revolution, for example when a postman opens and reads our mail, before delivering it to us, because this is exactly what Google does with Gmail users, or that advertising companies install cameras in your home and agents that follow us everywhere on the street, to spy on us and offer us products that correspond to our daily customs. This is exactly what the practice of surveillance advertising means that they use to earn money and that in my opinion is a crime and a clear violation of the basic rights of the user. Mentioning this and trying to spread it is of the utmost importance and has nothing to do with blaming the unwary who are not aware of the problem, it is shaming and denouncing the companies that use these practices.


For anyone looking to buy a new tv that isn’t full of shit software and tracking, look into digital signage displays. They are more expensive if you buy them new but they have none of this consumer tracking bs installed on them. The panel quality is usually quite better as well.

Ive had my eyes on this one https://www.sharpnecdisplays.us/products/displays/m551



That’s really good idea. Whenever my “dumb” TV bites the dust I will keep that in mind

I don’t connect my tv to the internet. But unfortunately I do still use Roku since it’s so damn simple and thus all my viewing is shuffled off to the data brokers just the same, but fuck tv manufacturers for sneaking that shit in there.

This is why you use a pihole

Would pihole actually be able to block these?

Can confirm. Adguard and pihole block them no problem

Cool. I have one set up but my TV isn’t “smart” like that

Yes, it does.


Although blocking at the root level through PiHole, AdGuard, PortMaster and others, block some ads and trackers, they do not block all of them, they do not full work for example on YouTube, Amazon and other sites, which use tracking techniques that are not intercepted at the DNS level (Fingerprinting, Header,CSS,Font, WebRC, Pixel (Facebook), Keylogging (M$ with TowerData),etc…)

A definitive solution can only be achieved by outlawing surveillance advertising practices and techniques, if not, the only thing left to do is to limit yourself to using only decentralized networks, which, on the other hand, have their own problems regarding security or, in general, to use only a product or service that does not use these practices, but this is almost impossible, since most of the services and products on the network are American, where these surveillance practices are quite widespread to earn money, even in FOSS.

As a user you can only try to avoid the thickest, using a VPN, certain extensions, some analyse tools (Blacklight, Unfurl, etc), and above all with care and common sense, but for this you must first know these practices and, as I said before, read the TOS and PP of everything you want to use. .

I don’t want smart appliances at all


I would if they ran on an open architecture and open software.

Is this something a router-based DNS filter like PiHole remove?

Dont connect it to the internet. That’s all


What use is a TV without Internet!?

You use it a dumb TV and then you connect a smart device you have more control over via HDMI (or another connector)

I don’t have a TV. I’m asking to understand what it runs inside.

I have a Google TV based “smart” TV and use PiHole. The balance is blocking just the right queries to maintain acceptable privacy and security, while allowing queries which are necessary for desired functionality. The domains often change as well. These can be more efficiently blocked with RegEx queries but those have a higher chance of breaking functionality as well.

You can also deactivate the “smart” features or simply not connect the TV to the network.

But you’re a nice guy sexypeach and we have you uwu


thx u 2 :3

One brand, I think it is Vizio, is specifically known for over the top selling of user data to “subsidize” the consumer facing price of the TV. Of course all of the brands do it but even the ones who are very transparent about it do well enough to stay on the market.


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