I’ve been thinking about trying to pull together a union at my workplace for a while, but too many coworkers trying to get into fights or rat each other out to management, so screw Unioning that. If nothing else I don’t have the emotional stability to try to unionize my workplace.

While I was brooding at home after work (ruining the rest of my day) I realize that this whole thing is a really optimal scenario for the boss. In fact if I was a boss, I’d specifically try to hire aggressive-ish employees.

What do socialist countries do about this? It’s not like they lock up all their aggressive coworkers the way America tries to. In America we lock up a lot of people but then they’re still lots of aggressive people.


In my opinion, the biggest problem in the west is not in fighting. That was a problem for us too. The biggest problem in the west is that the state is so powerful and efficient, it has mastered the art of population subjugation and propaganda. Obviously, this is many times truer in the US first, other settler countries second, and the rest of the West third.

In the US, this is so true that it has become part of its culture. Anti-labor unions, focusing on yourself and viewing your collegaues as competitors, not sharing your salary, etc. All this is culture that sept through from propaganda.

While I was brooding at home after work (ruining the rest of my day) I realize that this whole thing is a really optimal scenario for the boss. In fact if I was a boss, I’d specifically try to hire aggressive-ish employees.

Any boss who’s actually smart should see this as a less optimal scenario. Sure, in the short term you might be able to take a divide-and-conqueror approach to your employees. But in the long term, it poisons the workplace and makes you use loose good employees. My workplace is unionized and the leadership has proven themselves to me to be committed to creating a genuinely pleasant work environment. People stay there for a long, long time. I’ve been there for seven years and I’m on the lower end of the scale, whereas at many other IT departments that would be high. That is beneficial to the organization because loosing an employee means loosing institutional knowledge and training up a new hire.

If it’s a ‘high skilled’ job then yours makes sense, but in ‘low skill’ jobs pretty sure they don’t care much about new training since training is like 1 hour


Unfortunately, that’s all too true. All the more reasons that labor unions are an indispensable part of a healthy society. That said, people still work best in a workplace that isn’t a toxic hell hole.


I think this partly has to do with the fact that, historically, material conditions and the availability of consumer goods in the west have been generally better than those of countries where socialist revolutions have taken place (for obvious reasons and through no fault of socialism, “thanks” to imperialist and colonialist exploitation). People lacking class consciousness thus do not immediately see why socialist ideals or even revolution are worth immediate struggle. The rise of China and decline of the West might soon change this dynamic.

It has mostly to do with cult like mentality that has been on the culture since the first time a religion got side to side with an state. If you lool closely, the bourgeoisie is defending teeth and nails the supposed freedom of religion because it do really does a good job of concealing any bit of critical thinking. And the bougies learnt to do the same with a cultist mentality regarding idealism, patriotism, nationalism, identity, individualism, and more, the same way the nobility did in their own context.

It has to do a lot with propaganda, aka: indoctrination.

Shouldnt the bourgeosis have errected figures who are actually bougy simps? Like jesus is a man, which i guess means the boug got their prefered genitals. But he’s literally left af.

Like shouldnt they have made like wario or scouge mcduck their jesus figure instead?

Actually the rightwing movement to basically rightwingerify the bible, have qanon be a neo religion, having trump be their prophet is in lines with what i think their optimal strategy would be, but the bougy arent seriously pushing for those.

Uh… Dude, hating yourself while living in a hippie camp while expecting God to do the rest, while considering women inferior and slavery “not that bad” isn’t leftist AT ALL.

clearly we’ve read different things about jesus. Shrug

I read the Bible, and you?

Error 404 good faith argument not found

“religion has been since millennia manufactured for controlling the population.”

“Jesus was a leftist!”

“No he wasn’t.”

“Bad faith!”


I haven’t thought much about this yet personally, but my hot momentary take is that it has to do with class consciousness. I’m going to ignore the volume of anti-labour/anti-communist propaganda in capitalist nations for a moment as I’m not sure that’s as important to this. I also just read the essay "Masses, Elites, and Rebels: The Theory of “Brainwashing” which was pretty hot on lemmygrad a month ago which has definitely changed my perspective.

People in the west do not have class consciousness, or even the sense that class struggle exists and is happening. I think if you’d ask random people on the street they’d tell you that class is basically just income brackets.

Capitalism forces all of us to be selfish to an extent, so without a base level of class awareness and active class consciousness we often choose the path of highest rewar and lowest risk for ourselves. When the going gets tough in a union building situation for example, we can cash out as it were, and rat on management, thus turning the situation positive for ourselves.

Whereas in socialist countries, there is a common sense of class consciousness. Even if the thing your union or workplace or municipality is doing in this moment may not benefit you directly in this moment, you have been given the tools to see how it will be beneficial for your community, your class, and thus for you in the future. Or maybe it’s not beneficial to you personally at all, but again with that class consciousness in mind you still work towards that goal or at least step aside to allow others to do what they need to do to for the advancement of the cause.

I also question this idea of leftist infighting. I see a lot of it simply coming from the fact that a lot of self-proclaimed leftists aren’t leftists at all, and they get in to fights with radical anti-capitalists such as MLs. There’s not going to be any unity there without breaking the ideology to the point where it’s useless.


I remember once when this news crew was walking around asking people what class they belong to and how much they make was, the responses were telling. Absolutely everyone said they were “middle class”, regardless if they were making $20,000 a year or $200,000 a year.

As for those anti-imperialists who don’t participate in this festival of xenophobia — and here I include myself — we have our own elitist consolation: we accept the tragedy of masses of gullible sheeple falling for cunning propaganda because having overcome it flatters our own intelligence. The more we condemn society’s stupidity, the smarter we feel in comparison.

This is such an interesting manuscript to read. Enjoying it so far. Thanks for the recommendation.

No problem!

It’s more correct to say that they go along with them, whether enthusiastically or apprehensively, because it’s actually their optimal survival strategy.

Another good note on bourgeois proletariat acceptance of Western propaganda.

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