Due to the recent ban of a wolfballs.com-user for “Bigotry and racism on his main account on Wolfball.” it is requested that Lemmy.ml updates the Code of Conduct to reflect actual moderation. Please consider adding that Lemmy.ml will ban users for comments made with other accounts on other instances.
I’m all for the wild west of the internet. I don’t have a problem with Alex Jones existing. They banned him from everything and all he did was take his ball and go somewhere else. Just like reddit suppresses marxism leninism and causes us to migrate. The people of lemmy.ml aren’t socialists as a rule. They’re more akin to the FOSS crowd. For many reasons I’m not concerned with fascists on the internet. They aren’t working within the State. The liberals of either party are state actors and therefore more frightening to me than fringe fascists hiding in the backwater. I’m of the line to let them have their communities so long as they don’t enter ours and cause trouble. On this topic I’m more in line with the general sentiment of lemmy.ml. I’m for the freedom of discourse. The truth will stand on its own merits.
No offense, but this is the response of someone who doesn’t get called a pedophile groomer regularly just for existing.
Allowing people who do that to hang around your “leftist” (which lemmy.ml claims to be) spaces just further endangers queer people. It’s soul-crushing and draining to have to start every conversation with the basic premise that you are a human being denied you. I think our comrades at lemmy.ml deserve better than that, otherwise they’d just hang out on reddit.
Lemmy.ml admin who banned him here: Not sure I have that much to add to the convo, but I will say I’m really disappointed at this. Still think the ban should have been upheld but the admin that reversed it outranks me so my hands are kinda tied.
I think that one of the main goals of lemmy is getting people out of the claws of corporate, cia social media like reddit.
The less people on reddit, the weaker the usa mind control apparatus gets.
However, for this to work, there need to be instances for those kinds of people that are on reddit.
Most of them won’t know how federation works and will land on lemmy.ml. If they can’t be sent to an instance that fits them, they would probably go back to reddit, or something similar, which would go against that goal.
The way I see it, if someone doesn’t “fit into” lemmy.ml, you can always say, “hey, go to join-lemmy.org and find an instance better suited to you or start your own” And they will find wolfballs. It’s right there on that site, it’s not hidden or anything.
But lemmy.ml itself is an instance that claims leftism and a ban on bigotry. And plugging wolfballs in the comments violates that. Like, if I made a racist blog about phrenology and then posted it in the lemmy.ml comments and said it was a super cool and inviting safe space for everyone…do I get banned? I never put the phrenology stuff in the lemmy.ml comments, so according to the line of thinking of the ban reversal, I would be cool to keep advertising away. And what it leads to is, you can say whatever rule violating stuff you want as long as you link to it in the comments and don’t type it in directly
You don’t even have to look at it from a bash the fash perspective (though you should). Just looking at it from a purely debatebro “follow the rules” perspective, that account should be banned.
The way I see it, if someone doesn’t “fit into” lemmy.ml, you can always say, “hey, go to join-lemmy.org and find an instance better suited to you or start your own”
Rules for thee and not for me on lemmy. Oh what’s that? A ML with lived experience is telling you how homophobia and transpjobia works? As a cis liberal chauvinist let me debate you and your rights and experience.
Oh someone’s literally called a member of the lgbtq+ community a pedophile parroting the same dangerous rhetoric that led to violence and killings of lgbtq+ by right wing reactionaries? They sleep.
Remember when I got banned for calling someone a dickhead? Yet calling someone a pedophile given the context above is apparently okay according to the world’s most centrist and milquetoast dickhead.
AgreeableLandscapes even gave a very clear argument (with precedent) for why the ban was justified. But I guess nutomic is in charge of liberalization
Edit: There’s even a convo on wolfballs where nutomic tells a maga chud that their ban was reversed, they shouldn’t get banned again, and if they do nutomic will have another “talk” with the admins and get it reversed. What the fuck is going on over there
Nutomic is clearly a moron, that much is sure. Whether they are crypto-fascist or just a sympathetic to them to try and grow lemmy is meaningless when they are now aiding in the growth or a far right instance.
Pathetic behaviour.
I thought you and @TheConquestOfBed@lemmy.ml both made more than clear the position only to have someone accuse conquest of being a pedophile which I noticed wasn’t taken down.
Clearly the line on lemmy is if you aren’t asking for literal violence against someone it’s fine to enable and encourage the vile rhetoric designed to dehumanise minorities leading to violence. Fucking peak lemmy.
Don’t even get me started on comfy and there “it’s disturbingly racist to say you can’t be racist to white people” nonsense ideology. That entire instance is so high on their own ego, self importance and ignorance they couldn’t find their nose in the dark if I broke it for them.
I don’t know if I want to be the mod for such a provocative board especially if the common consensus is that its not worth it.
If we defederate then sure but there’s a lot of compelling arguments for remaining federated and I don’t want to obfuscate that by pushing buttons that are best left unpushed for now. We will see.
There’s even a convo on wolfballs where nutomic tells a maga chud that their ban was reversed, they shouldn’t get banned again, and if they do nutomic will have another “talk” with the admins and get it reversed. What the fuck is going on over there
Me too, fucking hell. The whole “wolfballs isn’t fascist” excuse is bollocks, they’ve clearly stated they send fascists their way, because it’s “less work for them”
I’ve previously been against defederating, but seeing one of the main lemmy.ml admins defend fascists and actively promote a fascist instance has made me change my mind.
I genuinely don’t think there’s any way to salvage that instance.
I have one argument personally against de-federating, and that is we still dominate the all page, and if we can spread that message. I don’t think we can convert many people, but I do think that we can get some who stumble across Marxism Leninism, and that is something I think is valuable.
Yeah, if you look at lemmy main page and set it to all, then most threads and nearly all active ones come from lemmygrad. And from those not from lemmygrad most are posted by Yogthos. Lemmy literally have one guy providing 75% of content.
Hmmm, I dunno, lemmy.ml is one of the best vectors for finding really cool people and getting them to come here and chat with us. But it really seems like billing lemmy.ml as “leftist” is pretty misleading.
Easy peasy to just stick to looking at the lemmygrad stuff and ignore this nonsense, but the problem then is that those places get pulled farther and farther right. We’re already considered “extreme” to a lot of people, if lemmy.ml pulls farther right they’ll be the ones defederating from us
Edit to add: more and more I agree with comrade Awoo that hexbear’s reintegration will be crucial to keeping things actually leftist
Yeah, I get the feeling @dessalines@lemmy.ml and @nutomic@lemmy.ml have never dealt with wreckers before. This guy is a really amateur low-tier fash and he could break the site by himself in a matter of weeks if he wanted to. They’re pretty obviously not equipped to handle it.
I didn’t think of that. They didn’t seem to be hiding it based on some of their comments, but I’ve deleted my comments to be safe. Pinging @Ottar@lemmygrad.ml if you want to do the same for your first reply
Nutomic: wolfballs isn’t obviously fascist, you need proof cause I don’t see any
Also nutomic: I also promote wolfballs on here because instead of just banning bigots I like to give them a helping hand in finding a place where they can radicalize farther
They say “centrist” but then want to find a middle ground between an instance that is sucdem at best and an instance that is far-right while pretending to be the opposite. Hilarious.
That’s what I’m saying! Nutomic keeps being obtuse about it and acting like they don’t know what I’m asking for, but I’m literally not asking for policing of off-site activities or for rules to change. I’m saying the current rules are anti-bigotry, and I do not see at all how promoting a bigot website is not a violation of those rules.
What fucking rules are these where fascists are allowed to promote their stupid fucking instance, but calling a fascist “a piece of shit” isn’t, because “that’s mean :'(”
It’s bullshit to ignore a mask off fascist because he’s “nice here” but even if you were gross enough to ignore people like that because you don’t “police off-site activity” (which like, so what, Gavin McInnes can log on and as long as he’s nice he gets to stay???) how do you ignore that he actively plugs and recruits for wolfballs on lemmy.ml??
Like everytime someone says some bigoted shit and people get mad, there he is in the comments, telling them they have a safe space on wolfballs. How is it Leftist to let your platform be a source of recruitment for the fascist echo chamber?
This is a Dengist community in favor of Bashar al-Assad with no information that can lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton, our fellow liberal and queen. This community is not ironic. We are Marxists-Leninists.
If you haven’t already found it, this GitHub page is an excellent collection of sources about socialism, imperialism, and other relevant topics, made by @dessalines and others.
Absolute betrayal
No more idealism will bring bright future, you got to make your hands dirty, hackle some reactionaries, kick some fash butts.
I’m all for the wild west of the internet. I don’t have a problem with Alex Jones existing. They banned him from everything and all he did was take his ball and go somewhere else. Just like reddit suppresses marxism leninism and causes us to migrate. The people of lemmy.ml aren’t socialists as a rule. They’re more akin to the FOSS crowd. For many reasons I’m not concerned with fascists on the internet. They aren’t working within the State. The liberals of either party are state actors and therefore more frightening to me than fringe fascists hiding in the backwater. I’m of the line to let them have their communities so long as they don’t enter ours and cause trouble. On this topic I’m more in line with the general sentiment of lemmy.ml. I’m for the freedom of discourse. The truth will stand on its own merits.
No offense, but this is the response of someone who doesn’t get called a pedophile groomer regularly just for existing.
Allowing people who do that to hang around your “leftist” (which lemmy.ml claims to be) spaces just further endangers queer people. It’s soul-crushing and draining to have to start every conversation with the basic premise that you are a human being denied you. I think our comrades at lemmy.ml deserve better than that, otherwise they’d just hang out on reddit.
Yeah but deplatforming has also worked in cases like the guy who used to be “Nero” on Twitter. He could be dead in a ditch and no one would know.
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Lemmy.ml admin who banned him here: Not sure I have that much to add to the convo, but I will say I’m really disappointed at this. Still think the ban should have been upheld but the admin that reversed it outranks me so my hands are kinda tied.
You did your best. That’s all we can ask of you.
Thank you for your service 🙏
I think that one of the main goals of lemmy is getting people out of the claws of corporate, cia social media like reddit.
The less people on reddit, the weaker the usa mind control apparatus gets.
However, for this to work, there need to be instances for those kinds of people that are on reddit.
Most of them won’t know how federation works and will land on lemmy.ml. If they can’t be sent to an instance that fits them, they would probably go back to reddit, or something similar, which would go against that goal.
That said, the ban reason makes total sense.
Poor chance when libs swarm it and bring the mind control apparatus with them.
The way I see it, if someone doesn’t “fit into” lemmy.ml, you can always say, “hey, go to join-lemmy.org and find an instance better suited to you or start your own” And they will find wolfballs. It’s right there on that site, it’s not hidden or anything.
But lemmy.ml itself is an instance that claims leftism and a ban on bigotry. And plugging wolfballs in the comments violates that. Like, if I made a racist blog about phrenology and then posted it in the lemmy.ml comments and said it was a super cool and inviting safe space for everyone…do I get banned? I never put the phrenology stuff in the lemmy.ml comments, so according to the line of thinking of the ban reversal, I would be cool to keep advertising away. And what it leads to is, you can say whatever rule violating stuff you want as long as you link to it in the comments and don’t type it in directly
You don’t even have to look at it from a bash the fash perspective (though you should). Just looking at it from a purely debatebro “follow the rules” perspective, that account should be banned.
That seems like a good solution.
I don’t really be on Lemmy but what the fuck is going on over there.
Liberalism
You misspelled “fascism”
Scratch a liberal yadda yadda
Both are accepted spellings
I would like to personally thank @AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml and @yogthos@lemmy.ml for being the only sane parts of that godforsaken place.
👍
I do love some AgreeableLandscape and yogthos posting
This is fucking ridiculous.
I’m sorry but how can you be that immature and stupid?
“Oh they should be allowed to recruit bigots and engage provided they don’t say anything that breaks the rules” - morons in that thread
Infantile stupidity.
I KNOW, RIGHT???
Fuckin UwU I’m a smol bean who doesn’t understand what transphobia is. By the way, you’re a pedophile lmao.
I saw that and had to close the thread.
Rules for thee and not for me on lemmy. Oh what’s that? A ML with lived experience is telling you how homophobia and transpjobia works? As a cis liberal chauvinist let me debate you and your rights and experience.
Oh someone’s literally called a member of the lgbtq+ community a pedophile parroting the same dangerous rhetoric that led to violence and killings of lgbtq+ by right wing reactionaries? They sleep.
Remember when I got banned for calling someone a dickhead? Yet calling someone a pedophile given the context above is apparently okay according to the world’s most centrist and milquetoast dickhead.
No, that’s not accurate.
What do we call a person who:
I think it starts with ‘F’ and ends with ‘T’
As the old adage goes “scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds” and we are watching the live personification of that quote in action.
AgreeableLandscapes even gave a very clear argument (with precedent) for why the ban was justified. But I guess nutomic is in charge of liberalization
Edit: There’s even a convo on wolfballs where nutomic tells a maga chud that their ban was reversed, they shouldn’t get banned again, and if they do nutomic will have another “talk” with the admins and get it reversed. What the fuck is going on over there
Nutomic is clearly a moron, that much is sure. Whether they are crypto-fascist or just a sympathetic to them to try and grow lemmy is meaningless when they are now aiding in the growth or a far right instance.
Pathetic behaviour.
I thought you and @TheConquestOfBed@lemmy.ml both made more than clear the position only to have someone accuse conquest of being a pedophile which I noticed wasn’t taken down.
Clearly the line on lemmy is if you aren’t asking for literal violence against someone it’s fine to enable and encourage the vile rhetoric designed to dehumanise minorities leading to violence. Fucking peak lemmy.
Don’t even get me started on comfy and there “it’s disturbingly racist to say you can’t be racist to white people” nonsense ideology. That entire instance is so high on their own ego, self importance and ignorance they couldn’t find their nose in the dark if I broke it for them.
You’re allowed to @ me Ratto. But also, preach!
Apologies didn’t even think to, too angry ngl after reading the brain melting levels of stupidity in that thread.
I think it’s time for a c/shitlemmysays board because there’s too much fuckery going on not to record and fool on it.
Edit: updated to @ you
@AgreeableLandscape@lemmygrad.ml
For the record this was not my idea.
Made it, comment and I’ll mod you there Ratto
I don’t know if I want to be the mod for such a provocative board especially if the common consensus is that its not worth it.
If we defederate then sure but there’s a lot of compelling arguments for remaining federated and I don’t want to obfuscate that by pushing buttons that are best left unpushed for now. We will see.
I feel like this would be redundant with shitliberalssay or shitfascistssay, no? IDK, I tend to be a lumper for communities.
Would probably be mostly twitter and Reddit posts
nutomic moment. lemmy.ml seems to be a liberal shithole as of right now.
Liberal shithole is just fascist pipeline nexus with extra self delusion.
Could we get a screenshot for the record?
I don’t have enough clown emoji to adequately convey how this person acts.
Try this one:
chefs kiss
I’m pretty sure Nutomic is German, so this fits perfectly actually
I feel like I poisoned my CPU by going on that site. Cloroxing my PC now.
Me too, fucking hell. The whole “wolfballs isn’t fascist” excuse is bollocks, they’ve clearly stated they send fascists their way, because it’s “less work for them”
I’ve previously been against defederating, but seeing one of the main lemmy.ml admins defend fascists and actively promote a fascist instance has made me change my mind.
I genuinely don’t think there’s any way to salvage that instance.
I have one argument personally against de-federating, and that is we still dominate the all page, and if we can spread that message. I don’t think we can convert many people, but I do think that we can get some who stumble across Marxism Leninism, and that is something I think is valuable.
Yeah, if you look at lemmy main page and set it to all, then most threads and nearly all active ones come from lemmygrad. And from those not from lemmygrad most are posted by Yogthos. Lemmy literally have one guy providing 75% of content.
Yeah, fuck all that
ugh, lemmy.ml seems like shit recently.
I never really go to lemmy but recently it’s looked pretty similar to Reddit 😱
There are some really cool people on lemmy, but uh…yeah it has taken a swift turn for the worst
Do you think we will ever have to de-federate? Apologies if that’s not the right terminology.
Hmmm, I dunno, lemmy.ml is one of the best vectors for finding really cool people and getting them to come here and chat with us. But it really seems like billing lemmy.ml as “leftist” is pretty misleading.
Easy peasy to just stick to looking at the lemmygrad stuff and ignore this nonsense, but the problem then is that those places get pulled farther and farther right. We’re already considered “extreme” to a lot of people, if lemmy.ml pulls farther right they’ll be the ones defederating from us
Edit to add: more and more I agree with comrade Awoo that hexbear’s reintegration will be crucial to keeping things actually leftist
Ew. You want reddit? This is how you get reddit. Fash need to be hounded off with extreme zeal.
Yeah, I get the feeling @dessalines@lemmy.ml and @nutomic@lemmy.ml have never dealt with wreckers before. This guy is a really amateur low-tier fash and he could break the site by himself in a matter of weeks if he wanted to. They’re pretty obviously not equipped to handle it.
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I didn’t think of that. They didn’t seem to be hiding it based on some of their comments, but I’ve deleted my comments to be safe. Pinging @Ottar@lemmygrad.ml if you want to do the same for your first reply
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What reply 👀
Oh wow I just googled toki ma, that’s so cool!! Is it an attempt at a new lingua franca? I wanna learn it now 😭
The plot thickens 🤔 only they themselves can tell us spooky music plays
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It sounds it!
You probably can, it’s only got around 200 words
Well now I can’t!! 😤
Nutomic: wolfballs isn’t obviously fascist, you need proof cause I don’t see any
Also nutomic: I also promote wolfballs on here because instead of just banning bigots I like to give them a helping hand in finding a place where they can radicalize farther
I’m getting a little worried that he’s cryptofash. You can’t be that willfully blind, can you?
Admins a “leftist” instance, upset that leftists hate maga chuds
They say “centrist” but then want to find a middle ground between an instance that is sucdem at best and an instance that is far-right while pretending to be the opposite. Hilarious.
They seek the centre between Mussolini and Hitler lmao
Wants “nonpolitical” “centrist” instance - however you look at it, that’s just liberal.
because hating racists and excluding them from your website is “extreme”
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That’s what I’m saying! Nutomic keeps being obtuse about it and acting like they don’t know what I’m asking for, but I’m literally not asking for policing of off-site activities or for rules to change. I’m saying the current rules are anti-bigotry, and I do not see at all how promoting a bigot website is not a violation of those rules.
What fucking rules are these where fascists are allowed to promote their stupid fucking instance, but calling a fascist “a piece of shit” isn’t, because “that’s mean :'(”
liberalism
What the fuck
This is a good way to do discount hexbear emotes
It’s bullshit to ignore a mask off fascist because he’s “nice here” but even if you were gross enough to ignore people like that because you don’t “police off-site activity” (which like, so what, Gavin McInnes can log on and as long as he’s nice he gets to stay???) how do you ignore that he actively plugs and recruits for wolfballs on lemmy.ml??
Like everytime someone says some bigoted shit and people get mad, there he is in the comments, telling them they have a safe space on wolfballs. How is it Leftist to let your platform be a source of recruitment for the fascist echo chamber?
Exactlyyyyyyyyyyy
@nutomic@lemmy.ml see above for a more succinct answer than the one I gave you.