Ratette (she/her)
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Send them this

@ledward@lemmygrad.ml
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It’s based that you don’t have twitter ✊️

Lenin said to support Labour, at the time an actual worker’s party with actual socialists. He didn’t, say, support the Liberals over the tories. Although british communists were right to criticise them, they weren’t yet a bourgeois party, which Lenin points out. The tweetster twists paragraphs of Lenin’s words.

The Democratic party would be the equivalent of the Liberal party then, you know, that guy Lloyd George Lenin name-dropped as who we should be fighting. The democrats aren’t the equivalent of 1910s/20s Labour, Eugene Debs’ Socialists are. I don’t see this arsehole advocating for the return of that party, or demanding the democrats put some communists (or even CPUSA members) on safe districts, as was the case for british communists. This is merely a one-sided support for one bourgeois party that this guy claims is left against another that is right. Except of course they’re both right, the most reactionary Labour leaders then were further left than any democrat can conceive.

If I had to call this guy anything, it’d be a grifter. One cannot read theory this dishonestly with good intentions. More likely he hasn’t read, just found excerpts that seemed to support his previously held beliefs.

Muad'Dibber
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Lenin’s advice to the British communists in left-wing communism, an infantile disorder, ultimately failed, as did every electoral attempt to establish a socialist party in an imperial core country.

Lenin (and Engels) also was very aware that the labour party was turning into a labor aristocratic bourgeois party via imperialist bribery, but he hoped it would be temporary, since he thought the inter-imperialist rivalry during WW1 and the resistance of the colonies would destroy the material basis for it. But the US came out on top after ww2, and used its military and economic supremacy to further deepen the imperialist division of the world into poor and rich countries, and easily bribe every popular imperial core party.

We’ ve seen so many wasted years and lives spent on imperial-core electoralism, that you pretty much have to ignore history and rely on dogmatic quote farming to support it. The third world has always and continues to lead the way, because capitalism breaks at the weakest points in the chain, not nations where its possible to bribe their relatively small number of workers via the surplus value extracted from other countries.

Camarada Forte
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We’ ve seen so many wasted years and lives spent on imperial-core electoralism, that you pretty much have to ignore history and rely on dogmatic quote farming to support it. The third world has always and continues to lead the way, because capitalism breaks at the weakest points in the chain, not nations where its possible to bribe their relatively small number of workers via the surplus value extracted from other countries.

Excellent, comrade. And criticizing electoralism doesn’t mean boycotting the elections. Electoralism is what defines a party that is focused solely on achieving seats in bourgeois parliaments, not every party which participates in electoral activity. For instance, PSL is a Marxist-Leninist party which participates here and then in bourgeois elections, but they don’t do just that. They actively support struggles of the Statesian working class, they don’t just beg for votes every couple years

Depending on your country laws and how your elections work, participating in the elections can be useful because in some countries the candidates for some offices get a certain amount of TV and radio appearance, they receive a certain quantity of capital to fund their political campaigns, etc. If they manage to achieve a seat in parliaments, it’s useful to use the office for propaganda and agitation, to use the salary of the officeholder to fund the party, etc.

If I had a dollar every time some “leftist” equates Lenin’s words on participating in bourgeois parliaments to voting blue, I’d be able to fund the revolution single-handedly.

I think it comes down to them fundamentally misrepresenting what is meant by “participation”. Americans assume that means voting for whichever dominant party is slightly left to their right counterpart. When in reality what is meant by participation in electoralism is clear- engaging in electoral politics in whatever workers party on top of direct action and organizing for revolution. The only way that could not be clear is if they have never read any Lenin works. It’s so fucking obvious it hurts.

Campaigning for fascism is simply unexcusable and unjustifiable. It’s white supremacism passing as communism

It doesn’t even pass as communism. It is like the wolf in sheep’s clothing, except we’re all looking at the wolf like, “bruh, we see you.”

JucheBot1988
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Exactly, and this is precisely the result the Democrats were looking for when they let Roe vs. Wade be overturned. (These things don’t happen without insider agreement). Get the far left sucked into a “culture war” over laws that aren’t going to change as long as the current system is in power, while at the same time ensuring that nothing changes in the states the Dems really care about – New York, California, Oregon, etc.

Electoralism isn’t “when cast ballot”. They aren’t doing an electoralism by doing exactly the same as every random as shitlib - voting Dem.

In ‘Left-Wing Communism, an Infantile Disorder’ Lenin talks about how communists need to embrace rather than reject electoralism. In particular, he criticizes British communists at the time for not advocating the defeat of right-wingers in elections.

Voting for Dems isn’t advocating the defeat of right-wingers in elections, it is advocating for right-wingers. A communist that would even imply the opposite is deeply unserious at best.

This type of “theory application” is also one of the worst things people can do. They take extremely specific quotes out of their textual and historic context to justify their individual actions in current day.

Saying a “tactical vote” for a right-wing imperialist party is somehow necessary and okay to do, because you have good intentions is literally idealism. It doesn’t matter if you advocate voting for reactionary imperialist parties, because you think they’re awesome or because Lenin said this and that and ultra-leftism and yadda yadda. You’re voting and advocating for imperialist right-wingers.

Your individual vote is irrelevant anyway and posting threads like that person is just an exercise in individualism.

They’d have a point if the Dems were a flawed but genuinely left-wing party or if there was a genuine workers party to vote for in US elections. They’d even have a point in advocating for communists to participate in the construction of such a party (debatable, but at least a point). That’s participation in electoralism.

As is they’re just a randy telling communists to vote for and legitimize their own slave masters. Quoting Lenin out of context and applying it to their individual behaviour doesn’t change that.

That said if you got the time of the day and it makes you feel better, vote for them. It doesn’t matter really. Communist should just definitely not publicly advocate and thus whitewash them and absolutely should misappropriate communist theory to justify such.

Sankavara Gardens
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Also, when communists participate in electoral battles, they know it isn’t the end all be all. The electoral battle is not only to reach the masses, but it’s to show the inefficiency of the bourgeois democracy. They must show that electoralism cannot bring the change necessary, and that revolution is the only way forward. A struggle for reform is the same. Reforms must be seen as products of a revolution, and because of that, success and victory for the working class comes when the revolution is carried out to its fullest.

To participate in electoral struggle without any mass organising or a strong united socialist block is to hope a ship sails without its body.

Don’t be the blood cells, be the veins.

Edit: For the US socialists in this instance, the number one goal right now is to organise as much as possible. Without that, there should be no talk of “revolution”. Show the people that socialists have their backs when the state and the system fail them, because then they will pay attention to what you’re saying.

“You’re American” would be my best rebuttal.

Bury the Right
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In this moment here and now I care more about what the brand is of the toilet paper that I buy then the potential outcomes of the US 2024 election. Notify me when a candidate emerges who is against handing over more flaming rocks to Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan.

Neoliberalism is fascism is neoliberalism is fascism, ad infinitum. State power and corporate power exist solely to prop one another up in the pursuit of infinite profit. Liberals love to point out the Trump clique’s imperialist ventures and how close we were to World War III, but under a democrat we’re even closer and it’s all NATO’s fault. It’s incredible how well Amerikan intelligence is able to convince people otherwise. On their supposed “feminist” concerns, Roe v. Wade was overturned under a Democrat, period. The nuance of supreme court packing w/e is inconsequential to the point that Democrats have been in basically complete control of the state apparatus and it still happened. Murder of black and brown people by the state still happens. Discrimination against LGBT people is still happening. Nothing meaningful has changed, and nothing meaningful will change based on the color of the party in power.

The “harm reduction” nonsense like this is just ahistorical and shows either an ignorance of US policy or a willingness to throw other groups, often people in other countries, under the bus to temporarily satisfy their own wants and needs. Harm reduction is a strategy backed by actual data to reduce the death toll of drug use. It doesn’t apply to US politics. In US politics, there is only harm transference.

Even domestically with lip service promises, I dont see what voting democrat would even substantially do. The attacks on the marginalized RIGHT NOW as we speak is beyond political show boating. Women have lost some rights NOW. Like right now. In a dem majority in all levels.

The red states have a deep federation under the veneer of the federal government with state’s rights. Florida can reliably count on Texas to share the same code of law in the ways that matter for example.

The disappointing thing is democrats keep desperately believing they can avoid all this through voting. Their opponents are playing an entirely different game.

moist-leninist
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The Kaffe
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Democrat and Republican bases are quite affluent compared to the majority of eligible voters, who do not vote.

Lenin would want a Communist party to represent the majority.

The thread, if accurate:

A 🧵:

‘I’m a 🤡’

Simple:

Bourgeois elections are little more than a puppet show. Theater. The US has one party with two arms. However voting for the donkey-party-mascot fascists over the elephant fascists isn’t going to change the material reality or the ruling structure. If women are stripped of our rights it is because the bourgeoisie want it so and voting Dem won’t fix that. If POC are murdered by police and oppressed it won’t fix that because this country was founded on white supremacy.

Fundamentally participating advances the illusion that bourgeois electoralism has results or will do anything. It saps energy from the revolution, it gives false hope and it gives ammunition to those who cry any movement to the left will stop or reverse the harm reduction.

The US lacks any labor party. It lacks any party not totally enthralled with the empire, imperialism, and yes exporting fascism in for example Ukraine. One cannot be a communist and support the lesser fascists simply because they’ll give slightly better rights to the privileged workers at home. What’s not mentioned of course is those rights don’t come with a long-term guarantee and you’ll be stripped of them when it is necessary to do so.

Fuck liberals. Fuck electoralism. Fuck apologists for the fucking vile democratic party that supports Nazis and did nothing but stand by eat popcorn while abortion rights were destroyed. It’s all a show, their “resistance” to the Republican agenda is nonsense, merely a distraction for a short while and at the expense I’ll add of extreme hyper-chauvanism, clamp-downs on anti-imperialists and dissident speech via “muh Russian trolls” fear-mongering, upping the anti-Russian, anti-Asian hate rhetoric, continuing to fund fascists, continuing to arm fascists. It’s all just a slightly different arrangement of game pieces in their sick game and any communist who can’t see that and participates is fucked in the head.

Camarada Forte
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It was especially because of Dimitrov’s thesis on Popular Front that the communist movement lost to fascists. The alliance with Social-Democrats would be later rejected by the Communist International, as they would be recognized as “social-fascists”

Surely if you vote in democrats for the 51st time the American populace will realise how useless they are

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