…left has a Soviet flag, the center guy has a Russian flag, the guy on the right has a tsarist Russian flag. Just felt interesting somehow

There’s not any ideological continuity between Imperial, Soviet and Capitalist Russia to attach a persistent national/cultural identity to, but Christian Orthodoxy has been a pretty consistent presence across all three. So I guess the propaganda leans into making that an identity cornerstone while making the three different systems of government look superficial.

Wonder how this imagery sits with Chechens and other religious minorities?

Probably about as well as it did originally, they were never thrilled about orthodox hegemony and the tsar going hand to hand with it.

All I see is two tsarist flags, flags of oppression of the people, and one flag of the people to get the support of the people. Bullshit. I can’t believe some self-proclaimed communists actually support Putin. I only hope Russia wins so Ukraine loses.

A reminder: Both Russia and Ukraine are illegitimate states. Anyone who wants the illegitimate government of both states to remain is anti-communist, this does not mean I am pro-NATO, I am starchily against all capitalist governments. I also understand the fall of Ukraine is of most importance, fascism is more important to do away with than capitalism. However, actual scientific socialism is more important than some bullshit about the Russian people caring about each other.

Well, “святыни” means “things that are sacred”, but whatever. Pretty standard Putin-era populism - unity of history and all that.

Ah, in that context it’s more of a “political unity” sort of thing

Jesus looks high.

I suppose as a military banner it’s supposed to look somewhat intimidating

This one just looks fed up!

Come on guys, stop putting my face on a flag. This isn’t funny ugh.

A long time ago Rome divided into the Eastern and Western empires. When we say"West" were referring to the Children of the Western empire. Russia and the like are the other side. They have their own Church and civilization from the Eastern empire. The Catholic Church is the existing remnant of the ancient empire and the division between the Church and the empire has always played an understated role in war and politics.

And then you see cringe like this on billboards… Honestly I’m getting tired of all this USSR x Empire shit promoted in our media

Is it just me or was the original Russian Empire flag ugly as hell

It wasn’t even that common, only used between 1858-1896, the tsarist flag was the russian tricolor from 1696-1858 and 1896-1920: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_flags#Historical_flags_of_Russia

Which makes this even stranger

I mean, I get its used to say “tsarist russia, not modern russia”, so it needs to be different, but they could use the imperial heraldic eagle in the flag. Thats what empire total war did to distinguish from the french iirc.

This just looks prussian or german flag tbh

Most empire flags look terrible.

All tricolor shit is awful and lazy. For people such invested into nationalism they could put minimal effort to actually have some inspiring national symbol but no, it’s either three stripes or some incredibly convoluted heraldry, nothing in between.

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Exactly right. This sort of arrogant dismissal of any sort of national aspiration – as if every nation on earth were like the USA, an arguably illegitimate project from its founding – is part of the reason fascists end up taking power. If not guided by a communist party, the national aspiration of even oppressed peoples is bound to take unsavory forms. But siding with the imperialists, explicitly or implicitly, is never the answer.

Some further points:

  1. As Nameless Partisan said, Russia was devastated by the USA and NATO a mere three decades ago. Let’s call this devastation what it was: a form of genocide by austerity. Other countries besides Russia were targeted, and none, with the possible exception of Belarus, has come out of it quite so well. Contemporary Russia is neither socialist nor a utopia – how could it be? Still, the fact that there is in that country a government which refuses to completely denounce the USSR and which (to a certain extent) refuses to bow to the west, is little short of a miracle. By all rights, Russia should now be a fascist hellhole like Ukraine or the Baltics; instead, we have a figure like Putin, with whom communists and AES states can actually work. This is a lot less than the Russian people deserve, who have such a heroic history and who have contributed so much to the liberation of humanity, but we westerners, at least, should shut up and be grateful.
  2. With Putin we are to a certain degree on ground uncharted by prior Marxist theory. Bonapartism is an old phenomenon, but seldom (if ever) have we seen a bonapartist come to power on the ruins of a failed comprador regime, which itself replaced an long-established socialist state. Thus we have a curious contradiction: a government which is (a) ideologically liberal, (b) inherits the geopolitical position of the USSR, and (c ) because it inherits said geopolitical position, is continually driven by material forces back toward socialist or quasi-socialist policies. The basic problem is that which any liberal or third-way anti-imperialist faces: you may want to fight imperialism, but you cannot do it on the basis of a national bourgeoisie. They are simply not strong enough.
  3. With regard to so-called “social issues” (I hate the term, since all issues are social): progressive social policy comes about with economic development. This is basic dialectical materialism. That a country like Russia, which underwent near-annihilation at the hands of NATO and is only now starting to claw its way back to some kind of economic sovereignty, should have regressive attitudes towards women and sexual minorities, is inevitable if horrifying. In this regard western countries are just as bad; that they mouth progressive slogans is really the only difference. A country like the US, which uses feminist slogans to legitimize sex work, in order to provide for the millions of women the capitalist economy cannot employ, is really in no position to denounce Russia. The solution, as always, is economic development.
  4. One does not – cue that old Lord of the Rings meme – one does not simply overthrow Putin in a vacuum. Materially speaking, a revolution which overthrows the current Russian government will be doing the work of NATO and the west, whatever banner it is fought under. The current Russian communist party knows this, and is working within the government, with the final goal (as I understand it) of forcing Putin to govern in some kind of coalition with the Party. By some accounts, this coalition is to a certain extent achieved already, and was part of the reason for the special military operation (the Communist Party had been calling for it since 2014).

In short: like any communist, I have a laundry list of criticisms when it comes to the current Russian government. But now is not the time we should be airing them. Putin’s government is a problem for the Russian people to solve, not us. Let’s leave the Putin struggle session/circlejerk back in r/genzedong where it belongs.

EDIT: grammar.


I actively try to not make “this” comment when i agree with someone, but this time it’s certainly “this”.

If I were a mod I’d pin this comment

It is a banger, isn’t it

Christofascists everywhere must be stopped everywhere! They are extremely dangerous and will stop at nothing to eliminate leftists of all types along with members of the LGBTQIA+ communities. The scariest part is how effective they are at convincing workers that only God will save them and that they should fight their reactionary ultra-conservative battles against the “evil Satanic atheist left”.

Who hurt you?

this unfortunately is some Black Hundreds type stuff, not good. would be better if it was entirely socialist and not religious.

this isnt all that interesting its just Russian nationalism coping with the fact that Russia was at its greatest when it was part of the USSR. they cant deny their history as socialist because that would leave them with nothing to be proud of but they cant embrace it because it is antithetical to their ideology so you gets this shit

Unfortunately, this sort of stuff was starting to come to the fore, within the communist party, during the 1980s. While the Gorbachev wing of the CPSU was deviating from Marxism in the direction of liberalism, the so-called “hardliners” were beginning to deviate from Marxism in the direction of reactionary nationalism. As Xi has said, the Soviet Union ultimately collapsed because ideological degeneration at every level made the party effectively unable to function.

It is true that the Krusuchevite “reforms” had set in motion a series of events which were turning the USSR from a workers’ state into a kind of social democracy with an out-of-touch elite. A reconnection with the masses was desperately needed. To that end, the continuity of Russian civilization (and of the various other civilizations within the USSR) needed to be emphasized, and some sort of rapprochment between Marxism and the various religions within the bloc needed to be made; one could say that the USSR needed to learn from the experience of Baathism. But nobody, anywhere, had any idea how to do this; boilerplate nationalism was not the answer, and the collapse simply brought out and enhanced this kind of nationalism’s negative characteristics. Had Putin and his gang not beaten the post-1991 economy into some sort of shape, Russian nationalism might even have slid into something like what are seeing in Ukraine. The sort of faux religiosity, historical illiteracy, and vaguely chauvinistic nationalism you see in pictures like the one above is troubling and offensive, but remember: it could have been a lot worse.

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in this context I meant right wing nationalism, which… I hope I don’t have to explain why its bad.

I actually don’t think there is anything wrong with the concept of left nationalism or people taking pride in the fact that they are a people, which is presumably what you were thinking about.

It’s chauvinism, not working class pride and hope for a better society

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As every bourgeoise nationalism it’s promoting class solidarity, not class struggle - even if in current conditions it’s objectively antiimperialist.

You’re right to point that out. I didn’t mean that Russian nationalism was vile as Imperial core nationalism. However the current Russian state is still serving the national bourgeoisie and therefore I don’t think we should call it class struggle. Capitalist nations can and will pick the side that fit their interests. Putin and the Russian capitalist class wanted to be part of NATO until they understood that NATO will remain committed to considering Russia an enemy. They have to pick the side of the third world, so I suspect they could try to cannibilize the periphery when the opportunity comes. Solidarity between nations is what socialism is about not capitalism

mean arab terrorist

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Edit: (I understand it may look like trolling because I am asking questions. I am not trolling this is an attempt at dialectical process.)

No worries comrade, your points are valid and I never thought you were trolling!

I think it is true that the contemporary class structure of imperialism puts the Russian people in a position of being the oppressed class. However we must keep in mind that class isn’t a reason to be uncritical to a number of positions, because reaction exists in the oppressed class too. Looking at the original post, I see reactionary elements that must be criticized because the Russian Empire and the Orthodox Church are not elements that enable national liberation. National liberation, which is the left wing nationalism we are looking for, is rooted in the ambition to restart the socialist project in the whole the former Soviet Union, not in a melting pot of everything that made Russia “great” by any standard!

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No real ideology but liberalism, its truly sad to see how far russia has fallen

happy bread day

Very tragic

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